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Re: Should we create a policy of minimum age for PCs?

Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2018 9:48 pm
by Trace
I'd just like to know why everyone is trying to look at this problem from the viewpoint and context of the contemporary century and society. Does Drache have progressive policies on health and welfare? How the hell should I know? What I do know is that the last time I tried to play a younger character they were immediately set upon by a bunch of overly-concerned individuals, and before that even I've had a character forcibly sidelined based on OOC commentary and discussion.

I also know that, in a contemporary context, I see unsupervised minors running around all the damn time. Of course they're limited to the neighborhood, but that's mainly because the town I live in is a rather suburban one. In a place like Drache I don't imagine there would be as many restrictions on their movements or access to public venues, such as the Inn or the Arena, with or without adult accompaniment.

Do I think this whole vote is a bad idea? Yes, yes I do. There's a fair bit of opinion I've seen which makes some pretty impressive leaps of logic that quite frankly I'm confused as to how those conclusions are even arrived at in the first place. This is literally a third of the overall population you're talking about.

Are there issues with juvenile characters? I won't say there aren't. If you had some legitimate concerns about them being played well, or at least with a minimum of annoyance for other, older characters in the setting, that would be one thing. Nothing I've read in the last couple days, however, has come anywhere close to that line of thinking, though, and someone being personally uncomfortable with the character(s) in question is more a reason for them to simply avoid interacting with said character(s), not an invitation to restrict what roles can even be played.

(I guess if playing a kid makes you a pedo, then every actor who's ever portrayed a teenager in a high school drama and was older than 18 at the time of filming should be a registered sex offender...and they're not, so obviously, someone's reasoning is faulty.)

Re: Should we create a policy of minimum age for PCs?

Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2018 12:55 pm
by Gudrun
The issue at hand, which I believe spurred this poll, is the sexualization of playable young girl characters (because, face it, that's the sex of the majority of the young <16yr old characters played right now). Portraying them as "women", having babies at 13/14/15, and as prostitutes does exactly that. No leaps in logic required, and it seems inevitable in a channel that ends up having a heavy bent towards implied or played out ERP at times. I'd say making a large portion of the player base too uncomfortable to rp in main channels over something that is a real life problem (with often illegal results) is a reason to change a policy. We have policies regarding excessive sexual content and violence because it's gross and makes a majority of people uncomfortable here, for instance. We can't control what people end up doing in side chans, but I also think having these portrayals of (primarily) young playable girl characters in BDI's main irc channels ends up giving BDI a certain image to the public which can effect new players coming in.

This fantasy setting isn't 1:1 medieval/"early renaissance" Earth either, as stated in the policies. A higher age of majority/minimum age of playable characters (not NPCs) can be as much of a setting choice as the policy on guns. Cherrypicking age of majority for historical accuracy seems about as popular, given the poll thus far, as making this setting closely follow real life medieval/"early renaissance" maritime history and physics. IC laws regarding a rise in the age of majority can reflect peacetime, new school(s), use of magic, etc. When the poll concludes ops will figure out what this whole thing will mean for old and new players. But as mentioned many times in ooc, no, playable characters won't have to be deleted over this. Babies won't be deleted either as they fall under non-playable character standards, which means they are interacted with through a parent or guardian. Fucked up backstories are a staple in fantasy, too, so people can keep their 13&pregnant character background (As a side note based totally on opinion, that's gross.).

Film/TV productions are more likely to hire actors in their 20s/30s due to the legal issues regarding minors as actors. Namely, minors must have their guardian on set at all times, and they can only work a certain amount of hours. I think comparing a loosey goosey FFRP channel to Film/TV productions with a budget is apples and oranges.

Re: Should we create a policy of minimum age for PCs?

Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2018 1:42 pm
by Nymphetamine
Trace wrote:
Tue Jul 03, 2018 9:48 pm
What I do know is that the last time I tried to play a younger character they were immediately set upon by a bunch of overly-concerned individuals, and before that even I've had a character forcibly sidelined based on OOC commentary and discussion.
You were never "forcibly sidelined", so stop playing it up for drama. You were never once asked to stop playing your 6 year old or whatever. I, and others, made comments about how child characters are annoying and always poorly played, and shouldn't even be in a dangerous setting like the Black Dragon Inn. If you want to take that as "forcibly sidelined", go for it, but let's not skew what actually happened. At no point during any of those conversations did I, another op or even another player tell you to stop playing your character.

From an op standpoint, banning underage characters is a helluva lot easier than being asked to read through RP we'd rather not be reading to see if someone is getting squicky with their 12 year old. While the "Graphic Content" policy or the Character Review would cover both issues depending on severity, you're literally asking 2/3rds of the channel to tolerate RP they're clearly uncomfortable with. That's why there was a poll in the first place. To see what the player base's thoughts of it, instead of just deciding among the op team to enact a minimum age without consulting the players. The results are very telling.

At this point, unless a lot of people switch their votes, a minimum age policy is coming. You can make your peace with that, or you can see yourself to the door.

Re: Should we create a policy of minimum age for PCs?

Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 6:50 pm
by Jayne
My two cents. Seems Kate/Azalea's words do NOT go for me.

I am quite fine with not playing said child. Period.

Within the Tivaurd household there are a few children, none of which are roleplayed. Rav and I simply decide every so often what said kids have been learning, doing, how they are development wise and leave it at that.

Raquel may every so often use the phrase: "I'm leaving to go babysit the grandbabies." But that's purely all that's said regarding them.

I understand perfectly that ages below a certain respectable level are squeamish and unacceptable for perhaps 90% of the channel.

My biggest annoyance with this being dealt with is how all this is 'unacceptable and that is unacceptable'. Is the word which makes me LEAVE. Being perfectly acceptable as a JOKE in OOC and tossed about liberally at times IC. The word being, Rape. I've seen and left ooc far too many times due to that being tossed about as banter as if it's acceptable. If everyone is so set on making the place more 'acceptable', the word, despite it being acceptable for the times, isn't acceptable as an action in real life.

Re: Should we create a policy of minimum age for PCs?

Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 8:53 pm
by Gudrun
BDI has policies against excessively violent and sexual content in its main channels. Acting out a rape or doing something explicitly rapey in the main channels falls under that policy (There are even severe laws IC that address rape, since the act of rape is illegal in Transdariania). Discussing rape does not fall under that policy -- for instance, someone discussing not wanting to be raped or someone talking about their history as a survivor of sexual abuse which might include rape. If they got vivid about what happened, yes, there might be an intervention to tone it down.

The fact that rape is mentioned at all seems to be the crux of the issue you're bringing up. Characters in this setting have myriad messed up backstories that are excessively violent or sexual, such an entire family brutally murdered before a young girl's eyes or someone surviving sexual abuse. That's a part of fantasy/folktale narratives the world over. We do address when someone plays that out in the channels if it breaks existing policies, however.

Re: Should we create a policy of minimum age for PCs?

Posted: Fri Jul 06, 2018 8:37 pm
by Infern
Putting in my two cents:
An OOC minumum age policy is going to be a massive waste of potential, both for character development and for what we can play. If the problem is people feeling icky about child characters doing questionable things or being annoying it should be addressed on a case by case investigation rather than getting rid of it for everyone.

Re: Should we create a policy of minimum age for PCs?

Posted: Fri Jul 06, 2018 9:31 pm
by Gudrun
I would refer to previous posts, particularly from Margo, on a reasons why going on a case by case basis is undesirable from an administrative angle since being an operator is a volunteer position. It would be better to have a broad covering policy that includes all players, including operators, so we don't have to scroll through all of someone's posts or only know something is an issue when it's brought up. It'll avoid perceptions of favoritism -- that operators are simply picking and choosing who they like, and importantly it'll avoid issues down the road in a proactive way. People feel "icky" about child characters because of real life implications (many of which are illegal, many because players who are parents may have children around the same age) for ways adults portray children in this setting, and it is especially problematic when 13 is the age of majority/adulthood in this setting with no ooc playable character age minimum. I think you realize many players engage in ERP, and we can't prohibit what people do in side channels. However, prelude to erp, meaning the heavy innuendo in rp that sex is going to happen off screen, still happens in the channel. From an administrative angle, it would be better to raise age minimums, so down the road we won't see a repeat of certain character concepts played out in the setting before enough players notify operators in order to have a discussion.

We're not restricting what someone might have as a backstory, as long as it's not played out in a way that violates policies. A fictional character could still have a childhood and coming of age story, but characters would be introduced into the setting after the ic age of majority, depending on the vote.